Private land all over New England.

[ToxicTurtle]

Hey guys,

I contacted xeon when I first saw the post on the Jeepforums about getting a TriState organization up and running.

My name is David Brill and I am the land use chair for East Coast 4WD Association. We are a national 4WD association that is working to keep our public lands open, get permission for private lands and help keep unfair enviro laws from shutting down our private lands. Up here in New England and including northern NJ, we currently have access to about 3000 acres of private lands. These areas range from southern NH tthrough MA and into RI and CT.

I had mentioned the idea of becoming more organized and the idea of actually collecting dues etc. We (EC4WDA) have been doing this for over 35 years so we can be very helpful in getting you off on the right foot when you're ready to take that step.

Why would you want to take that step...?
Example... Paragon, which is private land, cost about 35 bux a rig EACH time you go. If you, as a club, decided to charge say $40 a year for dues and then join Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA, you'd then have access to much of the private land and would only have paid that money once.. doesn't mean you stop going to Paragon by any means, we run there a couple times a year... but having access to that many pieces of property and then, knowledge and info on the public roads that ARE legal throughout the area, makes it that much more fun.

I don't expect that you guys are ready to jump in just yet. But you have some great excitement here and when you all are thinking that maybe you would like more info on how it all works, let me know. :wink:

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Talk soon,

[wsb]

If you, as a club, decided to charge say $40 a year for dues and then join Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA, you'd then have access to much of the private land and would only have paid that money once..

what about an indivdual? so if I joined Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA, for the $40 they would send me a list of these trails on private land that I could access?

[ToxicTurtle]

[quote]what about an indivdual? so if I joined Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA, for the $40 they would send me a list of these trails on private land that I could access?

These private lands are open to member club runs, not to individuals. If you joined an EC4WDA club, like Long Island Off Road or Eastern 4 Wheelers or any other of the 8 clubs involved in EC4WDA here in New England (EC4WDA has nearly 75 clubs from CT to OH) you would be able to attend trailrides held on these lands with any of the Region D/Northeast clubs. These properties are mostly owned by region members who have been gracious enough to let us use their land for our events. Due to the number of members throughout New England and the problems that could occur by simply opening the lands up to individual members to use whenever they wanted, the properties are NOT open for casual individual use.

With the number of clubs that we have here in New England though, you could litterally be out wheeling every weekend somewhere in the northeast. Our Region clubs have an open invite policy to fellow Region clubs... so, if you were to join one club, you would be able to attend the other Region clubs events.

I would suggest keeping a close eye to this board and as this Tri-State 4x4 group grows, there will eventually be a need to organize just a bit more and collect dues (the structure is starting already with the "official members" section where a donation gets you onto the "members' list")
I would guess that eventually, this members list will need someone to be a presidential figure, treasurer to keep the donations in order and handle the account they're kept in, for paying for things like this site, Tshirts or decals to identify yourselves with, possibly/probably even to pay for club insurance..., a secretary to keep the member list organized... etc...

Our sport really needs organized groups to become "official" so to speak. As "official clubs" we then actually gain a louder voice when dealing with our politicians... something we all need to do if we want to keep what we do have and possibly hope to open new stuff. There is currently a group in NJ called JORVA (Jersey Off Road Vehicle Assoc.) and they are hosting a seminar in January on how to be more politically active, how to work with state agencies, etc. If you'd like the dates, contacts, etc. I can post them here.

There are grant dollars available that many of the New England (and NY and NJ and PA) states are not using that JORVA is looking to garner and use it for opening up a multi use facility in central/northern NJ on the land that used to be the old Safari Park (?) It something like 3000 acres... it has paved roads, dirt roads, has already been developed so its not like they'd be taking "pristine" wilderness.... The enviromental groups are fighting it and saying that motorized use has no place on state land... sounds nice huh..? We pay taxes to up keep the state lands but motorized use has no place on state lands...?? Should getya ticked off... :x

Anyway... I'm rather infamous for my ability to ramble.... :lol:
So I'll shut up now.... :wink:

Talk soon,

[badzook]

David,

Thanks for the information. Obvoiusly, you know your way around on this subject. As you pointed out, there are actually a few clubs around this area. I am not sure that this area isn't already saturated with them.

We ( xeon and badzook ) had decided to start this forum basically to see if there was a real need or interest in forming a club for this area.

At the present time we are only a "group" and we feel it may not be necessary to create another club.

Do you know of a club in our area that may already exist ?

We haven't joined a club yet and I think we would definitely be interested in participating with an existing club in order to become more familiar with the whole process.

I guess you could say we are testing the waters (for now) and may only remain a "group" to keep things less complicated..

Maybe, the real answer will become more evident when we see just how many people posess a true interest in the forum.

For now, I will definitely keep in mind all that you have said and wish to extend my gratitude for your taking the time to share this information with us.

Thanks Again,
badzook

[ROCKREADYXJ]

Bazook

You could join The hudson valley four wheelers they have access to all that land toxicturtle talked about bunch of customers of mine are members as so am I. they are small right now but a real good group of guys. I would suggest you join them. I believe you are not that far from me at all right?

[ToxicTurtle]

Bazook

You could join The hudson valley four wheelers they have access to all that land toxicturtle talked about bunch of customers of mine are members as so am I. they are small right now but a real good group of guys. I would suggest you join them. I believe you are not that far from me at all right?

I would agree. HV4W are definately a great group of people... their president is a lady... :wink: Sue Simms. They are very active within our Region. Orange County is only about an hour from here in central CT.
We have property in Fairfield Cty, and out near the casinos. The Fairfield location has 2 easy/moderate (w/hardcore options) loops and the "Trail in Vane" out near Foxwoods, has one very easy trail, one that we rate a 7 on a 1-10 scale and probably 3 that we rate 9-10.
There are also two properties up in the Torrington CT area that right now are being worked on and the only trails there right now are extreme hardcore.

We are also working (when I say we, I mean Region D/Northeast and the NEA4WDC) closely with local businesses up in northwest MA on economic issues to show the other businesses and local residents what a positive impactwe we have on their communities when we travel there for a weekend or even just a day trip. There are an awful lot of old town roads up in that neck of the woods. I'd guess and say that headin up 87 or even the Taconic for a more scenic ride, you could be in that area within 2.5 hours.

To answer your question about clubs in NJ... I am aware of three... I know there are probably more... but... they may only be "groups" as well. One is North Jersey Jeep Club... based on their site, it doesn't seem that have been very active. (no trail or picture updates since 03...?) They are members of UFWDA. East Coast 4x4 Experience is also based in NJ/PA. There site shows trips to Paragon and Raush Creek. Both great places to play... but there is so much more available, why limit your activities to two locations. Bergen County 4WD Association is the third... Their president was just at our club's Christmas party but I didn't think to ask him if the club is still actually an active club or just a group of friends wheeling his property (he has access to 1500 acres in north Jersey, which our Region clubs have access to, as long as he is there with us)
There used to be a club called Iron in the Pines and they primarily rode...in the Pine Barrens... haven't heard much of anything from them in years... Their site again has been awhile since it was updated... and the membership page no longer exists...
so... I know there are other groups or clubs that exist in Jersey... BUT... they seem to be only active in a "group of friends" sence... There isn't anything really wrong with that.... however, our sport, our CHOICE of recreation is litteraly under attack by people who feel that we should NOT be able to use our vehicles on ANY public lands, including old town roads that may have been in existance for over 100 years. They are even fighting landowners who want to set up 4x4 adventure parks like Paragon, saying that there is the possibility that some endangered species might like to use their land as a habitat someday and so, right now the land has to be kept pristine, no trails cut, no development, etc... They are using a law called the Endangered Species Act to make their point and actually sue landowners into "obeying" their aganda.....

Thats just one thing... I could go on for pages on this stuff... :wink:

BUT... these are the reasons we need to take our "groups" and take the steps and the real WORK that it will take and become organized clubs with membership in some larger, nationally recognized 4WD association. These larger associations have land use chairpeople spreading the word on when letters need to be written, what needs to be said, when meetings are coming up that are important for us to attend, etc...

Well... I've done it again.... :lol: Rambled on and taken up page space...
Check out www.EC4WDA.organd go to the landuse section... or try www.delalbright.com These sites can give you a better understanding of the battle we will all be affected by... whether we choose to fight or not... cuz, if we don't fight, the outcome will definately be no where to take our rigs... even private lands.... :x

As always... if have any questions... please ask... if ya dare... :lol:

Talk soon,

[ecscramble]

where in north NJ is there 1500 acres to go off roading on?

[badzook]

ecscramble where in north NJ is there 1500 acres to go off roading on?


LOL LOL LOL LOL :?: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :?: :?: Now if we told you that everybody and their brother and cousin would be there tomorrow and would ruin it all for the rest of us...

You didn't read the WHOLE THREAD here did you???

ToxicTurtle These private lands are open to member club runs, not to individuals.


I agree with the whole concept of joining a club. We are trying to PERSERVE our riding areas not DESTROY them......

Sorry, didn't mean to rassle you... But, Seroiusly, Read the entire thread starting from the top it is really informative.

badzook

[ecscramble]

no problem just trying to figure were there could be 1500 acres in bergen county? If it is in bergen county. Has anyone contacted them to see if we could get togeather with them and join?

[ToxicTurtle]

Like Badzook said... If we told ya, we'd have to killya... :lol:
The lands that we have permission to use, especially the large chuink in NJ, are only for club rides... Its not even open to our members to use whenever... Only club rides. So, despite the fact that this acreage might be within 20 minutes of you (or anyone else for that matter) you wouldn't be able to head on over whenever you felt like it. Our club up here in CT has enough land and public open roads (mostly in MA and CT) that we often don't run the same place twice in a year.

I can see the wheels turning in many heads..., or at least I can hear em... :lol: Just let badzook and xeon , with input from everyone else, move along at the right pace for this group.

In respect for this particular NJ landowner, I'm not going to say where it is. Overuse of any land will eventually ruin it, so even with all of our private lands, we limit our trailrides. However, once things start gellin a little more here and B & X take it forward, I'm sure that we'll be linking up and other clubs will invite you along... it may take a while for all this to happen so don't get all pysched or then frustrated as it takes the time its gonna take.

Talk soon,

[badzook]

Well said David...

Lots of people just want to jump into their rigs and go wheeling. Those same people don't understand that " This is how we arrived here in the first place" by illegally wheeling on other peoples lands..

Do you know that in NJ If you are convicted for Trespassing.

1) Your vehicle can be taken away and sold at public auction.
2) You could face fines in excess of $2,000
3) Be required to serve up to 90 Days in Jail

I'm not sure, but I think the threshold on some these limits were raised recently too.

David, Thanks Again for all of your Help and Support.. We ( b & x ) are well aware of the time and effort you have to put forth to help aid/guide us along in this process..We will be in touch as we progress....

I don't think most people realize the effort we must put into making these things happen correctly... It has taken us a great deal of effort and time to build and develop this forum into what it is now..

As of now, "we are only testing the waters" to see if, there is a large enough following to support a new club in this area.

So....People..... We need your support... I'm not asking for donations... What I'm talking about is creating a steady following.... If this forum takes off and continues to grow and show a legitimate need for a club in this area, then we will consider taking it to the next level and we'll create one... "For now, this is ONLY a Forum and ONLY a Group...." This forum is a means for all of you people to show your true interests in this sport.....from within the Tri State NJ NY PA Area......


ttyl
badzook

[ecscramble]

Do you know that in NJ If you are convicted for Trespassing

Did I ever say or imply lets go rape and pillage their land? I have been four wheeling for over 18 years now been around when sterling forest was a pay to play off road park, when ringwood was open to legal wheeling and to when The Mohawk reservoir in West Milord was the largest off road area on the North east. All I was asking is has anyone contacted any of these groups about getting started? WHat as a club or group does it take to join ec4wd or u4wda? Do we have to be an offical club with dues and by-laws?
I don't not trespass. It is not worth the chance on loosing my job over some local getting his rocks off solving the crime of the century by giving a trespass ticket.

[ROCKREADYXJ]

ecscramble I can give you the info for you to join hudson vally fourwheelers we Have a lot of acces to private land. And its not expensive to join I think it $20 a year. We got a run comming up in a couple of weeks. You can join a organized club like hv4 wheelers and still go with other clubs. I am a member of like 5 clubs. I have found you pay your dues and you can wheel almost anywhere legally.

[Freebird01]

this all sounds very interesting. How well could it work with a group thats this wide spread though? most clubs ive seen are usually started by a group of local friends. Being's this group is a "tri-state" group if it would become organized how would you handle the logistics of meetings?

At that point monthly meetings either have to be held online or people would end up driving a good bit to to attend. this could also help hinder the growth of a group.

I am not saying its a bad idea by any means. I would love to get involved with a new and upincoming group. A good friend of mine is one of the organizing members of a local truck club. they do a lot with the local community. The provide scholerships with some of the surplus funds to some of the local techschool students. (like $250 to multiple schools) they also do the tech for the bloomsburg,Pa truck show every year for the events.

Right now most of their funds comes from donatings during local firemans parades and the bi-annual mud bog they hold. they dont get involved in any trail rides or anything else at this point.

All of this done because the primary members (6-7) all live in the two neighboring counties.

Again not saying that organizing would end up a bad thing but logistics and a direction would need to be discussed a bit further.

[ToxicTurtle]

The club that I'm a President of and formed over 18 years ago, the Eastern 4 Wheelers, has members from NJ, NY, CT, MA, RI, VT, NH and ME. We have our meetings in a central location... which usually means CT. We have around 80-100 paid members and will usually draw 20+ to our meetings. Our trail rides are held throughout that same area. We are just one of about 10 clubs that are part of Region D/Northeast of EC4WDA and there are over 75 clubs that are involved in East Coast 4WD Association. That realm goes all the way out to OH/IN and south to KY.

Our association meets twice a year out in DuBois, PA.

Location is an issue but not one that can't be worked out easily. :wink:

Talk soon,

[badzook]

Qoute by
Freebird01
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:02 pm Post subject: very interesting
this all sounds very interesting. How well could it work with a group thats this wide spread though? most clubs ive seen are usually started by a group of local friends. Being's this group is a "tri-state" group if it would become organized how would you handle the logistics of meetings?

Again not saying that organizing would end up a bad thing but logistics and a direction would need to be discussed a bit further.

Well,

Believe me this has been discussed thoroughly for some time now...

Just so you know, or in case you hadn't noticed, ( and most people don't ) we do not represent ourselves to be a "Club" as of yet. We are currently only a "group". We are not planning meetings or developing plans for community events right now.

There is a lot of work involved with appointing a President, a Secretary, a Treasurer and Board Members. First we need to find the the people interested and capable of doing these tasks.

We do not currently have the resources or people interested in making this happen just yet.

To me, it seems we needed to start somewhere. Coincidently, we live right in the "Tri - State " area . So for us it seemed only right to include all of our neighbors and all types of rigs..

In the past, it has been my experience everybody has hectic schedules these days and a Club with less than 10 members results in only 3 or 4 people actually showing up for the planned event..

This way when you have invited 50 people and 25 or so show up, Now you're going to have some fun...

There are a bunch of us here who really don't mind traveling 2 hours to go "wheeling". Traveling as a Group is more fun anyway.

My original thoughts were that we first need to establish an answer to this question.... "Is there really a true need or interest for a club to be formed in the Tri-State area"?

As you can see, ( elsewhere on this board ) we are planning a "gathering" ( more like a caravan ) to head out to Paragon on the 29th.


We really didn't think this would be such a hit so fast... Much to my surprise this forum has really taken off. I am surprised by the results of a ride planned in the month of January to boot with only a few weeks notice.

Have you seen the poll that we posted for this January ride? I guess all of those people don't mind traveling out to Paragon.. The whole idea was to travel out as a "Group".

Myself and xeon have already met a few local people who we didn't know existed until we started this forum.

As a group, we are only informing our friends on the forum that we are "hooking up for a ride".

If you would be interested in participating in some form of leadership role please let us know. We will keep it in mind..

Thank's for your input and If you should have any other questions please feel free to ask...

Welcome to our "Group ". And Enjoy..

badzook

[Freebird01]

yep....not saying im lookin for a leadership role but was just stating what i seen.

im looking forward to the 29th run. im hoping i can get my zuk up to par by then. I would love to see this group go further eventually. and if that time comes i would like to be able to step up and lend a hand in anyway.

btw: this is off topic but are going to be able to make the 29th run?

[badzook]

Quote by: Freebird01
btw: this is off topic but are going to be able to make the 29th run?

I don't know yet.. I'm trying to push up some of my workload to make it there. If I do make it, maybe we'll wheel some of those technical trails and show those bigger guys what our little Zooks are really capable of.. LOL :D
badzook

[Freebird01]

as long as i dont get any body damage thats cool!!!

mine is still a bit too pretty to destroy too bad

[badzook]

Me Too..... LOL Mine only has 47K Orig and the body is still near mint...Only some minor trail rash so far...

Have you posted any pics of yours yet??

Badzook

[sentinal02]

you guys need rocker guards :wink: definitely on my list of mods that need to be done this year.

as far as how to go about setting up local meetings if we ever get to full club statis, break it up by state. set up three "local presidents" or whatever you'd like to call them for each state, and have them put together the monthy meeting for that state. you can move the meeting place around so that it's not just half the group that is always driving two hours to the meeting, and then you can set up a meeting between the three presidents and anyone else who needs to be involved in a quarterly meeting or whatever we think would be necessary. the great thing about the internet is you could even set up a chat session via instant messenger, or similar and hold the quarterly meetings that way. lots of different options. splitting the club by state or region also allows the group as a whole to get involved in the community at a more local level. just my take on that :D

[Freebird01]

Me Too..... LOL Mine only has 47K Orig and the body is still near mint...Only some minor trail rash so far...

Have you posted any pics of yours yet??

Badzook


yep they are in the members pics. its the blue tiger striped zuk. i got steel diamondplate rocker guards but i need to make some ski's. im thinkin i may just get a set of the smitty built tube steps. another guy i know has them and they are pretty beefy.

sentinal....i think that has a lot of potential. even if its on a group status and not a club an informal chain of command would even be great(pretty much already started). would make it easier to organize trail cleanups,toys for tots runs, etc.

small stuff like that makes a big difference.

[badzook]

Quote by sentinal02

as far as how to go about setting up local meetings if we ever get to full club statis, break it up by state. set up three "local presidents" or whatever you'd like to call them for each state, and have them put together the monthy meeting for that state. you can move the meeting place around so that it's not just half the group that is always driving two hours to the meeting, and then you can set up a meeting between the three presidents and anyone else who needs to be involved in a quarterly meeting or whatever we think would be necessary. the great thing about the internet is you could even set up a chat session via instant messenger, or similar and hold the quarterly meetings that way. lots of different options. splitting the club by state or region also allows the group as a whole to get involved in the community at a more local level. just my take on that

Actually, that's not a bad idea. As you can see there are people on this board that are "Thinking Club Status". As time goes on I'm sure we will grow to the point where we will formulate a club and maybe even seperate into smaller local clubs. First a "Concrete Following" needs to be established. We need to find dedicated people willing to help with the process of fromulating a club. Obviously it won't happen overnight.

The fact that we are discussing this right now, sort of tells me that you guys may have an interest in joining in with the formulation of a club.

Keep the great ideas coming as I really enjoy hearing them.

badzook

[ToxicTurtle]

Hey badzook... you got the idea exactly... Let the excitement grow first. As the excitement grows, the people will gravitate to the top and you'll have that club basis. The sport IS expoloding, even more now then when I started doing this many years back... I'm not surprised that it is taking off the way that it has. Up here in New England there was a group of people "hanging out" at Jeepz.com... The bunch from New England said hey, why don't we start a New England Jeepz board, as there are so many of us here on Jeepz.com forum... Less then a year a later they are a formed club, with something like 45 paid members, bylaws, a very nice site, doing monthly runs etc.... So... better get ready... it may happen faster then you expect... :wink:

and lest you forget... we are here to help you when you need it. :wink: :D

Talk soon,

[badzook]

Quote by : ToxicTurtle,
Let the excitement grow first. As the excitement grows, the people will gravitate to the top and you'll have that club basis.

That's exactly what xeon and I are planning to do. We both know that forming a club is way too much for 2 people to handle. We each posess many different skills but not enough to launch it to that level.

I know it is going to require the help of a few others to dedicate themselves toward the same goals we are trying to achieve here. I don't think most people realize the work and effort involved in setting this up.

That is the whole reason for our starting this "Group Forum". It is the vehicle that will take us to the place we want to go.

And, you're right about the sport exploding. The progress we've already made has shocked the both of us.. The response is incredible...:shock:

Thanks for your positive input. It is definitely appreciated. When we feel the time is right, we will be in touch with you to in hopes that you might help us to achieve our Club status. Until then feel free to post your input and ideas as it surely is appreciated.

Keep in mind, xeon and myself are interested in following the goals you mentioned in an earlier post. We are in support of the preservation of wheeling. At some point we hope to be a club and then we will join in.

ttyl
badzook :wink:

[rokspydr]

HI all,
NJJC is alive and well we ae having problems with web site and are in process of getting it resolved. You all are welcome to come to a meeting held 3rd tues of the month at warnock jeep on rt10.

Marc